Hello, Friends and Lurkers
Chilly autumn greetings to you. I come seeking your wisdom!
I'm working on a purity project for young ladies, and I have a question for you:
If you could give a bit of advice to some girls (and their mothers) about emotional and physical purity, what would you tell them?
(Guys - I would consider your input extremely valuable in this discussion - if any of you have the guts!)
I have disabled the anonymous comments blocker in case any of you would prefer to share anonymously.
Sarah here later, checking in....I am loving all of the input and wisdom that is coming from your hearts. I would love to hear more of the same. I'm also waiting for someone to talk about emotional purity: giving out too many pieces of our hearts, etc. And....anyone brave enough to talk about why you personally are sorry you didn't (or are glad you did) make good choices? Anyone want to talk to the ones who have already given too much? This is great stuff...keep it coming!
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One of the things I've been realizing in deeper ways is that modesty is really an issue of the heart. The outward appearance is only an expression of what's inside. In other words, a woman can be dressed "modestly" with all the important parts totally covered, and yet have a very "immodest" attitude in the way she carries herself or "advertises" herself to men. Another thing that happens is that "outward modesty" becomes the biggest priority rather than going directly to the heart of the matter: the heart! When we focus on the outward appearance then we loose God's priority. "Man looks on the outward. . . but God looks on the heart."
I highly recommend "And the Bride Wore White" by Dannah Gresh, I read it last week and wish I would have had it 10 years ago! She also co-authored "Lies Young Women Believe" with Nancy Leigh DeMoss. I haven't read all of that book but flipped through the copy I bought for my cousin and it is awesome!
In "And the Bride Wore White" she compares the way you value yourself, look at yourself as a fine china teacup to be valued and treasured, not styrofoam to be used and thrown out. Also she talks about the steps to physical intimacy and talks about drawing the line now (page 90)
Just get a copy of both books :-)
My very favorite missionary book, "Evidence Not Seen" has a wonderful quote pertaining to just this subject. "Pure love always leaves behind a legacy of undefiled memories without regrets." That pretty much says it all.
Sadly enough, in the heat of the moment, all good and common sense (and in many cases, right and wrong) flies out the window.
The difficulty in remaining pure(for girls) is usually rooted in self-esteem. The way the girls view themselves and the reasons they might NOT value themselves need to be a part of this discussion.
Amen to all of the above. My very favorite resource for this topic is a video by Pam Stenzel--Sex Has A Price Tag. Extremely powerful. Straight talk. I think you can find clips on google video or youtube. I have shared it with teens and they all indicated that they had a better understanding of the topic--risks, benefits, purpose, etc. One thing I would have done differently, I would have divided it into two different sessions (either 2 days or with an intermission) to allow more time for discussion. By the time the film was done, our time was gone. The kids were ready to talk but we had to go. I felt bad about that. Pam has counseled thousands of girls in abortion alternative clinics. She especially talks about STD's which you don't hear about much in our circles. Let me know if I can help in anyway. Pam interjects humor and does a great job of keeping the kids' attention.
I would recommend "The Secret Keeper" by Dana Gresh. This is a short book geared for young women. There is at least one really good illustration - visually the reader sees a triangle - although it is not really drawn. She then discusses how guys can "complete" the picture in their mind. Good stuff.
I would also recommend Dana Gresh "And the Bride wore White" I used this material for a retreat called "Pure Freedom" with high risk girls. I also used her DVD which made the books & activities come alive. It was very good. Some of the object lessons she recommended to do -- helped to get the point across in a visual way. I also followed this retreat with sunday school lessons using the book "Lies that Young women believe" by Nancy Leigh Demoss. Mothers get just as much help with both of these books as the girls did. Purity is not an "adolescent" thing. All of us need to keep our lives pure -in thought - in word and in deed.
I believe that at the root of this issue is the source of our worth. Our culture screams constantly that we are only worth something if we have sexy bodies. Sadly, even in the CHM, so many young women are trying to get their value or worth from being as sexy as they possibly can within the limit of the particular "rules" that have been set. They're totally missing the point. As the girls pursue such things, they drag the boys down with them so that the character of our young men becomes base and not what the girls (in the end) really want at all!
Our worth as Christians must, in reality, come from how Jesus views us. If we have a vibrant relationship with Him, we are ever pursuing to plese Him, to reflect His beauty.
Of course, since we are captive to this temporary world of "flesh" we have to deal with its forces, but we do not have to be governed by them. When I use the term "flesh", I mean it the way Paul used it; just the realm of this temporary world we are in with physical decaying bodies.
As followers of Jesus, we must "renew" our mind moment by moment with what He says is beautiful, not with what the people around us say.
(Renew our mind, i.e. walk after the spirit--the forever world; I on purpose did not capitalize "spirit". I've learned that in the Greek it was never capitalized. Many times Paul uses the word not meaning The Holy Spirit, rather the realm of the spiritual, the lasting, the real, the eternal.)
So, from my present understanding, simply trusting and following Jesus (once again) brings us to where we need to be, to purity inside and out.
He says we are beautiful as we love others, not seek to have worth through getting attention focused on our body. He says as we serve others we are beautiful, not serving the desires our bodies have. There is no end to the desires a human body has. There is no way to fulfill them--it's an endless pursuit. If we seek to do that, we go further and further from Jesus and His purity.
Maybe there's something useful in my rambling. I'm just sort of thinking out loud. I do highly appreciate the topic being discussed. It's despartely needed.
As you probably know I am blunt. I will tell you that as a young man I had no interest in a girl that had "given in" for anyone. Sure the guys will talk about conquests or supposed conquests but those are not usually the type of girls that upstanding guys care to take home to mom and dad. If a girl wants to be used and abused the best way is to "give it up" to any guy that asks, if she wants love and respect then stand firm on her principles.
Jerry Cooper
Well, I'm not sure wisdom would be the word I would ever use to describe my thoughts. But here's my two cents anyway. :) I believe that purity starts in the mind. Asking ourselves why we are doing what we are doing, thinking what we are thinking, wearing what we are wearing etc... This will hopefully cause us to question ourselves and how we affect others.(purity and modesty can never be legalized) Also I would add that a young lady should be aware that she has a major responsibility in maintaining her purity and helping to make it easier for the men around her to maintain theirs. Having said that I also believe that a young man's character is revealed in how responsible he is for maintaining his purity. My husband once told me that he is personally offended when people make comments that assume men are only driven by their lust and cannot maintain a standard of purity of mind(gorilla anyone?). Matt played a major role in setting the standard of purity in our relationship before we were married. His self control, love of God, and commitment to my best intrest made it easy for me to trust him. I also learned that he would make an exceptional leader for our home and a faithful husband to me. Without sharing too much information, I will confirm I am married to a very normal man. The respect and love he showed me and the self control and commitment to God that he exemplified in maintaing his purity and mine, was a choice on his part that was not always easy. It is my opinion(and that of my hubby too), that a boy/man who pushes the boundries with a young lady, forcing her to set the limits all of the time has not only a set of raging hormones(what young man doesn't?), but also has some real heart and character issues.
Juwah, I think you are married to a rare breed there. A man who actually THINKS he CAN control himself. I think most men (though not all) don't believe that at all. So very many men I know (yes, and very often "conservative holiness" men) tell the worst "dirty" jokes and have that very mindset where everything little thing triggers thoughts of sex.
I don't think Joseph (Jacob's son) was mentioned in the Bible for nothin'. He is the perfect example of purity, even with raging hormones and constant daily temptation. But, it seems most men believe Joseph is the exception and not the rule.
I could say more, a whole lot more, but I won't. It's best I remain anonymous so I don't embarrass anyone. ;)
I know a few men like Juwah's man... mine included. So much depends on what a man expects of himself. Just like in every other arena, if we believe we are able to do something, that's half the battle.
If we believe we cannot live above willful transgressions, we won't; if we beieve we are suppose to and can with God's help, we will.
And of course, the Bible wouldn't instruct us to if we weren't able.
Sarah, I just came onto your blog and enjoyed reading the comments that the other people had about purity. You have touched on a subject that Rings my bell!!! Having just spent 5 months back in the USA, I was SAD to see some of our dear holiness girls dressing in such a way to leave LITTLE to the imagination. Right before I left to come back to Colombia...I started taking notes in case I got a chance to speak to our young girls, but I didn't. As my brother would say, "IF IT'S NOT FOR SALE...DON'T ADVERTISE IT." In this day and age we hear all about guys making comments over those "hot chics" and sometimes we girls think that if they don't mention us...that we aren't pretty. (I know...for I have faced this living in 2 different countries where the men ALWAYS make comments and STARE openly at nearly every women they see.) However, in talking to my wonderful husband about this the other day...he said, "If a rattle-trap truck came down the road making noise, we men would look at it and say, "That's interesting." (but we wouldn't want that for OUR CAR!) So just because a man looks at a women and makes comments DOES NOT MEAN that he appreciates her for showing off her body. The decent men try to look the other way and WISH that she would cover up...and that is NOT the girl that they would chose to become their "Mrs." I wish our girls/young ladies could realize the TROUBLE that they cause men by dressing with such low cut blouses, short skirts, and TIGHT clothes...and how men (or at least our Christian men) are wanting to see some pretty yet purely dressed young ladies with a godly character that outshines the next cheap girl whose clothes (or lack there of) say "For Sale". True, God made men to love and appreciate beauty, (And if you are happily married like I am, you know how much it means to you that your man loves and appreciates you) but it gets HARD for our men (who want to keep PURE MINDS) to try to dodge all of the women who go around selling themselves. (I feel SORRY for my man...for we are missionaries in a country where the women dress leaving NOTHING to the imagination, so EVERYWHERE he goes, he is turning his head so as not to see the sights.) I think that if we as Mommies and Daddies can try to help our girls see how precious and priceless they are...that they will gain Godly confidence to help them stay pure until that right "Mr. Right" comes along. Somehow...we Mother's need to teach our girls their self-worth. That their self-worth does NOT depend on if they have a boyfriend or not.
My Grandmother told my mother..."A good name is ALL a poor girl has!" My Moma always warned me to be careful of what I did...for someday, I could be a pastor's wife, missionary, etc. and travel around and have to face those same men that were my friends when I was younger. WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY WAS TRUE...for I am a pastor's wife...missionaries wife and have had to travel around and meet the same men again. My Moma said that even today...when she looks at her GBS year books, the faces of those that messed up, sinned, etc. always stand out to her.
I don't know why you asked this question...but I hope that if you are going to speak about this subject...that the girls listen and learn a lot from what you have to say. =) Sorry to take up so much room, like I said, this subject has been on my mind for some time.
I love all the new pics of your kids! Too cute!
2 books I recommend would be:
I recommend "Passion and Purity" by Elisabeth Elliot
"Beautiful Girlhood" Revised by Karen Andreola and for smaller children:
"The Princess and the Kiss" by Jennie Bishop
Sarah,
You might want to check out Lauren Winner's "Real Sex: The Naked Truth About Chastity." I have not read the whole book, but I've read enough to know that she is very insightful about this subject and has a lot to say to today's generation. She brings a different perspective to this whole topic.
Note to Anonymous (the one who wrote after my comment): If I had daughters I would advise them to remain single if they were only surrounded by men with such shallow spirits and such low regard for young ladies. After all real love seeks what is best for the other, not self. I do know several men who live this standard, while they may be rare, they exist and are worth waiting for.
Sarah;
I remember reading in Rebellution (a great book by Brett and Alex Harris) that they conducted a modesty survey on their blog. You may want to check that out.
Sarah, have you read the book "Emotional Purity" by Heather Paulsen? You can find her blog at emotionalpurity.blogspot.com. I haven't read the book yet, but it looks fantastic. . . FWIW.
I made a long post last night, forgot to copy it, and promptly lost it so I will summarize.
Emotional Purity as described is not an issue with me. Maybe cause I am a guy?
There are many reasons why I am glad I waited, here are a couple; This was already mentioned but bears repeating, I have introduced my wife to several girls I went out with(I hesitate to say dated since there are only 2 or 3 girls that I went out with more than twice.) and would not be ashamed to introduce her to the others if the chance presented itself. Another reason is that I have friends who have had many marital problems because their spouse has insecurities about their "adequacy" in the marital bed when compared to former lovers. The last one I will list is that I can be a "moral authority" to my children and not have to be a hypocrite.
One last comment is that I believe as a parent COMPLETE honesty is vital to helping your child maintain purity. My example is my father who is brutally honest and blunt(now you know where I get it). My dad was completely honest when we had our various "birds and bees" discussions and assured me that sexual relations were a wonderful and pleasureable time, however he cautioned me that while it would be an enjoyable experience if I were to participate premaritally the potential consequences were not worth the risk and the pleasure and reward gained by waiting would be HUGE. You all may think I am crazy but there were a couple times in my life that the "opportunity" presented itself and the words of my dad came back to me and gave me the extra restraint I needed.
In closing, I have often asked "Why didn't God design us so the desires started AFTER MARRIAGE?".
Jerry Cooper
I have fully enjoyed ready these comments. I would like to say that I appreciate Heather's comments. It actually brought tears to my eyes. I also could not agree more with the modesty issue. It is sad when you are sitting in church listing to someone sing and your husband doesn't feel comfortable looking at the singer because of her appearance. We need to realize that even though we are covered, if the clothes are to tight it still leaves little to the imagination.
My mother always taught us that our beauty comes from within. We can look in the mirror and tell ourselves we are beautiful. If you have Jesus living within, you have a shine, a special beauty, the He gives.
We need to cultivate a sense of pride and self-esteem in our children and peers. Girls need to watch out for others who are more reserved and quiet. Those girls need girlfriends to be with and to help build her self-esteem. My mother encouraged us to look for the one who needed a friend. I hope I'm not way off on the subject we are sharing with. I feel this is part of building healthy relationships.
You have gotten very good tips from the others who have replied. I hope my two cents worth helps out also.
God bless you in this endeavor!!!
Sarah....at Cara's influence, I am also a BIG Lauren Winner fan...Jen and I are both reading "Real Sex"....absolutely foundatioanl stuff!! Please get
this sort of healthy mindset afloat into new places!!
As for emotional purity....as an "old single" now, (heavens forbid:)!!) I am sooo thankful that my heart has not been parceled out into little pieces in a mindless pursuit of that ever-lofty goal...(ie marriage). While certainly not perfect, my goal should be and most times has been to know myself....be comfortable in my God-created identity....whether that identity included another or not....that valuing of self as created by God has helped in pursuing holisitic purity. (this is a pretty basic theory as well you know)(but of course folks define the "purpose" of we women in different ways....often leading to confusion and contributing (imo) to the very problems you seek to address)
Sarah, After the above comment, I actually finished the last couple chapters of that book (yes, it's late!) I HAD to share this quote from Winner with you: "To practice sexual chastity is not to guarantee our our own personal purity or righteousness. It is rathar to strive to do sex, to have relationships with other people, and to comport our bodies and our desires in ways that perfectly love God and worthily magnify His name."
WOW..THAT's the idea!!
(and just for your info., alot of the book is actually about marriage...ie the place for sex.)
I think I would try to help them focus on God's plan and how much He is hurt when we go our own way. A healthy FEAR OF THE LORD will keep us from sinning.
Growing up I had the very distinct understanding that my mother thought it was TERRIBLE for a girl to have a baby before she was married. I was probably around 7 to 10 years old and had no idea what caused a girl to have a baby. I kindof equated a baby with a sneeze......you may have one at any moment without forwarning, married or unmarried!!!!!! So, I prayed fervantly EVERY night as part of my bedtime prayer....
"And God, PLEASE don't let any of us girls have a baby before we get married!!"
I think knowing how hurt Mom (and God) would be, helped me later on in life to say no to sexual temptations.
I certainly haven't been perfect, but I WAS a virgin when I got married at age 41!!!!
(My High School kids can't believe this!!!......I can't either!!! It's only the GRACE OF GOD!!)
.....and God DID answer my childish prayer!!!!
If I had the opportunity to talk to young people about saving themselves I would stress to them that noone regrets saving themselves for their mate but just about everybody regrets the decision to have sex with someone other than their spouse. When you sleep with someone you are sharing something so intimate and you will never be able to get that back. When you stand at the altar with your husband/wife and you face them without the baggage of pre-marital sex you will be so thankful you waited! Having pre-marital sex is like giving a little piece of yourself and heart away with each encounter. What will be left of you when you finally meet "the one"? Having pre-marital sex is like tasting every flavor at Baskin Robbins even though you KNOW that chocolate is your favorite; by the time you've tasted all the other flavors your favorite flavor, Choclate, seems bland and doesn't mix well with the other flavors lingering in your taste buds. Just stick with Chocolate!! One Man. One Woman.
You can't take back whats "written" on your heart and body. Stress to them consequences and sin taking them to a place they don't want to go. I wish that I had listened when I was young because sex has a price tag!
Every Woman's Battle & Every Young Woman's Battle are pretty much the only books I use as recommendations in this area. I think Shannon Etheridge does a phenomenal job of addressing the way a woman's mind works and how the tiniest thing in our minds can become a giant stronghold for impurity.
~
Specifically, in regard to your note on emotional purity - she addresses the comparison between a man looking with lustful eyes and a woman giving away her emotions to the various men (real or imagined) in her life & mind.
In Every Man's Battle Stephen Arterburn teaches men to redirect their eyes, in this book she teaches women to redirect their thoughts. Training proper focus while acknowledging that God created us as sexual beings and offering guidance on how to embrace that as pure Christians instead of telling you to ignore it and hope it will go away.
On the "Point of View" radio talk "show" the day before yesterday, they were discussing a new book about sex outside of marriage. The emotional damage it does and how it is scientifically proven to be harmful to us. I believe the book was called "Hooked".
Also, a year or so ago, we heard a talk on the Fam. Life Today with Joshua Harris. They discussed modesty, etc. It caused some discussion between my hubby & I. He acknowledged that it must be hard for us ladies that really do our best to be modest. We can a lot of times feel frumpy, or unattractive. He actually thanked me for dressing modestly - it made me cry. Unfortunately I can't remember all of the conversation. It was just neat that he realized - for the first time ever - that it is not easy to dress this way and to be soooo different from the "norm".
I too have been alarmed at the way our "Holiness" crowd is dressing. What Heather said has been on my heart as well.
Another book that talks some about modesty is "Sexy Girls". I have not read the whole thing and I do know that she is not coming from a necessarily conservative angle, but there were definitely some good points made about certain ways girls dress and what it does to guys.
Since I am commenting anonymously, I will say that my husband and I "messed around" when we were dating. We did not have "sex", but ..... I feel like it still affects the way I feel about sex and we've been married for over 8 years. If only we can teach our children that there are some things that are worth waiting for. Maybe that's part of the problem - we live in a society that teaches, why wait for anything?! We have credit cards, loans, everything available so that we can get what we want, when we want it. The discipline of waiting is one that seems to be forgotten.
I have also heard that a girl's relationship with her father plays a vital part in how she relates to boys.
Enough of my rambling. Hope some of this is helpful.
When I look back on my life I wish someone would have really took it upon themselves to stress the importance of purity when I was young. Oh, yes I heard it some but It never made a big impression, I think when I needed to hear it in my teen years it was not spoken of directly but implied. If I could talk to teens today, my mind always goes to the virtuous women in Proverbs 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all of her days. Faithfullness and purity starts when you are young. It doesn't say when she married him, no, she lived her whole life to show honor to her husband. I think emotional purity and physical purity go hand in hand, if its not written on your heart than your actions may be ones that you will regret later.
I hope this helps. Bev
This is a great topic! At Youth Challenge last weekend, Stephanie Phillips did a PHENOMENAL job on this topic with a very attentive audience. As a mother of a teenage boy, who is currently attending a holiness Bible school, the thing that I would recommend from a girl is to let the boy take the initiative to get acquainted with a girl and when they decide to date, let the guy be the first to hold hands or make any physical contact. When you (the girl) are the first to initiate this, it makes those around you think that you are forward and that you are not to be trusted. Let the man be the one to learn to LEAD in a relationship and when he is following the Lord's leading, he will learn to be a strong leader in his future marriage. Girls who are chasing guys come across as having one thing in mind and that is sex. When they are indecently dressed it is so much harder for the young men today, which is no excuse for immoral actions, but young ladies and their indecent attire causes many men to fall. I have noticed it in our Conservative Holiness Churches. The low necklines, cleavage, tight clothing and short skirts show that you are not a pure young lady and you have evil motives in your heart. Thanks for letting me share my two cents worth.
Wowzers!
All this stuff is great. I have really enjoyed reading all these comments. My niece Heather put a link from her blog to yours. I remembered you from our ladies retreat a couple of years ago in the Crocker’s barn (in Hobe Sound where the sun shines on your face:)) so I just had to take a peek and see what all this was about. I just have to say I really appreciate all you do for Christ. I would have to agree with the post from Jerry Cooper, honesty is the best way to show God’s purity to our young people. I was not raised a Christian, in fact I didn’t come to Christ until I was 37. By that time I was married with 3 beautiful children (two of which were as tall as me at the time). For most of my life I was taught that I can be as “independent” as a man, that women should have the same opportunities as our male “counterparts”. Yes I grew up in a liberal, feminist, selfish society (better known as the “world”). I was taught by most of the adults who had influence over me that my generation would try, but fail at purity so our lifesaver would be Planned Parenthood where we could obtain birth control, condoms, and yes even that procedure that cures every mistake, abortion. Without going into my whole story in this teeny tiny spot I’ll just tell you of my failure. I made a lot of wrong choices from the age of 12 on and found myself in a crisis pregnancy around the end of my 14th year. Someone told me of a little procedure that would take care of my problem before it became a baby. I found a doctor and lied about my name, age and social security number, gave the nurse my $150.00 (yes this was a looong time ago) and went in to have my first child murdered. From that moment on my life just began to spiral. In health class a couple of weeks after my abortion I watched a movie presentation of life in the womb. I was devastated. Instead of turning to God (which I didn’t understand) I turned to drugs, alcohol, and promiscuity. I married a man just a messed up as myself (the father of my three living children) and we almost destroyed each other.
Then God stepped in!! My husband was touched by God and I watched. That got me curious and eventually I gave my heart to Christ. There are so many things I want to say, but will try to keep this to one page and not a book. When God lead me to a group of women and a bible study I began to walk through the trauma of my past abortion. During this time I decided to tell my children of their brother I had aborted and ask them for their forgiveness. It was the most amazing moment of my life to open up honestly with them and tell them of my failures and have them forgive me. So short story long:), having my kindergartener ask for prayer for her oldest brother and her mommy during prayer time in class pierced right through to my now heart of flesh.
My children are fearless champions of the right to life as defined in the Bible. Every life is sacred. So yes I do believe that our children can handle the truth about abortion, premarital sex, STD’s, STI’s and the evils of substance abuse. They just need people like us to tell them honestly about the consequences.
I went to a planned parenthood on a cold rainy day about twenty-five years ago, alone, afraid, and ashamed. I can still remember the sound of the machine used to abort my baby. It was sickening. I never told anyone of my experience because "good girls" didn't find themselves in those predicaments. Years later I married a wonderful man and we wanted to start a family right away. I got pregnant and miscarried at six weeks. My next pregnancy lasted eight weeks, the third one lasted ten weeks, the fourth one lasted twelve weeks. My husband couldn't understand why we couldn't have a baby but I knew why. I had told my OB doctor that I had an abortion years earlier and he said because of the way the abortion was done it was hard for me to carry full term. We waited a year and tried again. My doctor told me if I could carry past twelve weeks I should be able to carry full term. I got pregnant again and my husband and I were elated but not for long, my fifth pregnancy lasted twenty weeks. I was so far along in my pregnancy that I had to deliver the baby. I didn't just have a miscarrage. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. I had to endure childbirth knowing that my baby was dead. The look on my husbands face is something I still can't get out of my mind, even years later. We have never been blessed with children and I have never told my secret to anyone, not even my husband. Premarital sex does have a price to pay........I'm living it.
To Commenter #30,
I met a wonderful post abortion peer counselor this past summer. She is from the Indianapolis area though her organization is branching out into other parts. She is a Catholic but when I met her, I must say, I saw Christ in her face.
She had an abortion many years ago and had to come to terms with it years later. Her website is www.healinghiddenhurts.org And the phone number is 1-800-827-1617
Obviously,I don't know who you are, but I can't imagine the heavy, heavy burden of anguish and guilt and secrets that Satan has put on you for 25 years. I pray that you find healing and I do think you could help many girls who've had abortions in their past.
Hey Sarah just thought I'd check in and see if you got any more comments on this purity post. Loved the link. I didn't even think of posting any links (must be getting old ;) ). Here are a couple of good ones for anyone who is reading this through tears of regret.
www.safehavenministries.com
www.optionline.org
www.abortionchangesyou.com
www.healinghearts.org
And for men, they are all too often forgotten when we think of abortion pain.
www.fatherhoodforever.org
www.lifeissues.org/men/MAN
www.menandabortion.info
Then I also have a confidential email address devoted to post abortion pain.
handsforhope@live.com
Thank you so much for opening up this window of thought. God surely is and will use it for His glory.
Blessings
Libby
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